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	<title>Comments on: YOU Are Responsible For Your Testing Future</title>
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	<link>http://blog.utest.com/you-are-responsible-for-your-testing-future/2010/06/</link>
	<description>Software Testing Community</description>
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		<title>By: Ben Kelly</title>
		<link>http://blog.utest.com/you-are-responsible-for-your-testing-future/2010/06/comment-page-1/#comment-16064</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jun 2010 09:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.utest.com/?p=6107#comment-16064</guid>
		<description>Hi Faroq, 
Thanks for reading.
Here&#039;s a question for you. 
What can a software tester do to make software defect free?
or even
What action can a software tester take to improve software quality?

On their own, there is nothing that a software tester can do to change the software itself. It is the insights from the information we provide that lead to others making decisions to change the software or not.

It sounds to me like you&#039;re talking about testers being responsible for software quality - that&#039;s dangerous ground to tread and not what I&#039;m getting at at all.

We have a responsibility to be as useful as we can possibly be; to cultivate helpful relationships with the people we work with; to educate ourselves and actively improve how we work. Do you see the difference?

Dave,
Yeah there are some companies that are genuinely like this. I&#039;ve been lucky enough to work for one. What I&#039;d really love is for that to be the norm rather than the exception.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Faroq,<br />
Thanks for reading.<br />
Here&#8217;s a question for you.<br />
What can a software tester do to make software defect free?<br />
or even<br />
What action can a software tester take to improve software quality?</p>
<p>On their own, there is nothing that a software tester can do to change the software itself. It is the insights from the information we provide that lead to others making decisions to change the software or not.</p>
<p>It sounds to me like you&#8217;re talking about testers being responsible for software quality &#8211; that&#8217;s dangerous ground to tread and not what I&#8217;m getting at at all.</p>
<p>We have a responsibility to be as useful as we can possibly be; to cultivate helpful relationships with the people we work with; to educate ourselves and actively improve how we work. Do you see the difference?</p>
<p>Dave,<br />
Yeah there are some companies that are genuinely like this. I&#8217;ve been lucky enough to work for one. What I&#8217;d really love is for that to be the norm rather than the exception.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://blog.utest.com/you-are-responsible-for-your-testing-future/2010/06/comment-page-1/#comment-16036</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jun 2010 05:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.utest.com/?p=6107#comment-16036</guid>
		<description>Quote:
&quot;I want to work in a place where the developers are up in arms if a project manager suggests shaving time off testing to meet a deadline. I want to work in a place where the BA’s demand that the testers help analyze risk during design. I want to work in a place where project managers and stakeholders listen intently when a tester says ‘I think there might be a problem here’…&quot;

You want to work @ Microsoft!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote:<br />
&#8220;I want to work in a place where the developers are up in arms if a project manager suggests shaving time off testing to meet a deadline. I want to work in a place where the BA’s demand that the testers help analyze risk during design. I want to work in a place where project managers and stakeholders listen intently when a tester says ‘I think there might be a problem here’…&#8221;</p>
<p>You want to work @ Microsoft!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Faroq</title>
		<link>http://blog.utest.com/you-are-responsible-for-your-testing-future/2010/06/comment-page-1/#comment-16024</link>
		<dc:creator>Faroq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jun 2010 20:54:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.utest.com/?p=6107#comment-16024</guid>
		<description>Great article!!
I think testers have so much responsibilities of making the software less defect free which they should be proud of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article!!<br />
I think testers have so much responsibilities of making the software less defect free which they should be proud of.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ben Kelly</title>
		<link>http://blog.utest.com/you-are-responsible-for-your-testing-future/2010/06/comment-page-1/#comment-15978</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Kelly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jun 2010 03:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.utest.com/?p=6107#comment-15978</guid>
		<description>Hi Lanette. I deliberately steered clear of talking about how the value of software testing and especially quality is defined because that is a whole other kettle of fish and deserving of several articles on its own.

Of course there are wider issues than those within the sphere of software testing. I feel your pain, but the issues you highlight, whilst being real issues, are not what I wanted to focus on with this article. For new testers still finding their feet, testers who perhaps have not yet begun to explore what the software testing community has to offer - what responsibilities to these people have to their craft? For people who think software testing is a finite sum of knowledge/set of practises - I want to challenge these misconceptions

I want to highlight that being a great software tester involves constant self education and effort that goes beyond the 8-6 of your job. It&#039;s not a &#039;ra-ra testing&#039; article so much as an exhortation to clean house first. It did include some suggestions as to what you can do - one of those being to build relationships between you and your non-testing co-workers.

To address the points you raise. As far as the interviews you describe go - if you are not being asked testing questions in an interview for a testing position, then that presents you with a fantastic opportunity to ask your own questions about software testing at that company. I have had these sorts of interviews myself. In each case, I have done my best to show that there is more to good software testing than being able to cut code. Try and determine what people want to know when they ask a question. I&#039;ve had some success phrasing answers &#039;you&#039;re probably looking for answer X. Conversely (or additionally), I think Y because...&#039; 

Even if the person interviewing you doesn&#039;t have a lot of experience in testing, you can still open their eyes in such a way that they can see that value you could bring to the position. If they can&#039;t, then you probably don&#039;t want to work there anyway. Remember, while they are interviewing you, you are also interviewing them. Being prepared to say &#039;I&#039;m sorry, I don&#039;t think I&#039;m going to be able to make a positive difference at this company&#039; and walk away from a role that is not right for you gives you a much different perspecting than going begging, hat in hand.

I used to believe that testers, when doing a good job, were invisible. I don&#039;t anymore. A great tester (or team) is one that goes beyond presenting information and presents insight. It&#039;s part of that building of relationships between people. You have to be able to show your value in a way that matters *to them*. Your value needs to be something that they value. When you can do this consistently then your work will not be invisible, it will be demanded. 

How do you convey the value of thoughtful testing? Depends on who you&#039;re talking to. To a developer it might be things like being able to talk to them about why they used a particular data structure or sending them error logs with timestamps that match the error you found or otherwise giving them something meaningful.

What about your Ops/Admin team? Talk to them about software config management, environment management, version control, CI. Let them know the sort of things that concern you when shifting updates between environments. Let them know you&#039;re interested in what they&#039;re doing.

Same goes for BAs, Project managers, end-users, sales reps and so on. Talk to them. Find out what matters to them and think about how you can do something positive for them. As a software tester, you&#039;re an information hub. You have the ability to gathe information from many different sources and decide how that information might be useful to other people. Something you think is innocuous might be vital to someone else in a way you hadn&#039;t thought of. Keep the information flowing. 

This is but one facet of the testing diamond to be polished. There is plenty you can do. I think that begins keeping your own saw sharp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lanette. I deliberately steered clear of talking about how the value of software testing and especially quality is defined because that is a whole other kettle of fish and deserving of several articles on its own.</p>
<p>Of course there are wider issues than those within the sphere of software testing. I feel your pain, but the issues you highlight, whilst being real issues, are not what I wanted to focus on with this article. For new testers still finding their feet, testers who perhaps have not yet begun to explore what the software testing community has to offer &#8211; what responsibilities to these people have to their craft? For people who think software testing is a finite sum of knowledge/set of practises &#8211; I want to challenge these misconceptions</p>
<p>I want to highlight that being a great software tester involves constant self education and effort that goes beyond the 8-6 of your job. It&#8217;s not a &#8216;ra-ra testing&#8217; article so much as an exhortation to clean house first. It did include some suggestions as to what you can do &#8211; one of those being to build relationships between you and your non-testing co-workers.</p>
<p>To address the points you raise. As far as the interviews you describe go &#8211; if you are not being asked testing questions in an interview for a testing position, then that presents you with a fantastic opportunity to ask your own questions about software testing at that company. I have had these sorts of interviews myself. In each case, I have done my best to show that there is more to good software testing than being able to cut code. Try and determine what people want to know when they ask a question. I&#8217;ve had some success phrasing answers &#8216;you&#8217;re probably looking for answer X. Conversely (or additionally), I think Y because&#8230;&#8217; </p>
<p>Even if the person interviewing you doesn&#8217;t have a lot of experience in testing, you can still open their eyes in such a way that they can see that value you could bring to the position. If they can&#8217;t, then you probably don&#8217;t want to work there anyway. Remember, while they are interviewing you, you are also interviewing them. Being prepared to say &#8216;I&#8217;m sorry, I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m going to be able to make a positive difference at this company&#8217; and walk away from a role that is not right for you gives you a much different perspecting than going begging, hat in hand.</p>
<p>I used to believe that testers, when doing a good job, were invisible. I don&#8217;t anymore. A great tester (or team) is one that goes beyond presenting information and presents insight. It&#8217;s part of that building of relationships between people. You have to be able to show your value in a way that matters *to them*. Your value needs to be something that they value. When you can do this consistently then your work will not be invisible, it will be demanded. </p>
<p>How do you convey the value of thoughtful testing? Depends on who you&#8217;re talking to. To a developer it might be things like being able to talk to them about why they used a particular data structure or sending them error logs with timestamps that match the error you found or otherwise giving them something meaningful.</p>
<p>What about your Ops/Admin team? Talk to them about software config management, environment management, version control, CI. Let them know the sort of things that concern you when shifting updates between environments. Let them know you&#8217;re interested in what they&#8217;re doing.</p>
<p>Same goes for BAs, Project managers, end-users, sales reps and so on. Talk to them. Find out what matters to them and think about how you can do something positive for them. As a software tester, you&#8217;re an information hub. You have the ability to gathe information from many different sources and decide how that information might be useful to other people. Something you think is innocuous might be vital to someone else in a way you hadn&#8217;t thought of. Keep the information flowing. </p>
<p>This is but one facet of the testing diamond to be polished. There is plenty you can do. I think that begins keeping your own saw sharp.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Lanette</title>
		<link>http://blog.utest.com/you-are-responsible-for-your-testing-future/2010/06/comment-page-1/#comment-15975</link>
		<dc:creator>Lanette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jun 2010 18:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.utest.com/?p=6107#comment-15975</guid>
		<description>I love the idea of taking small steps to make testing better, but I believe you are missing some important points. The value that testing and quality has at a company is not defined by those in testing alone. In fact, the practitioners are NOT the main problem from what I&#039;m seeing, and our efforts alone need allies to make changes, especially at the larger companies. How do we convey the value of thoughtful testing? How to we show that it isn&#039;t optional when often the best work means we allow the developers to shine, but you hear nothing from or about testing, because there are no dramatic bugs. That can lead to the misconception that since they aren&#039;t hearing of quality problems, perhaps it is safe to cut there. Outsource more jobs. Just don&#039;t do the testing, or accept more risk and let the users test.

I bring this up only because I care so much about the survival of creative, balanced, successful testing for software. I want using software to be a great experience. This year many of the best and most talented testers I know are out of work, and all I see are open jobs for people to create automation and make testing tools. My peers are going to interviews where their entire value is how they code on a white board, and they aren&#039;t asked even ONE testing question for a testing job! It concerns me. I know we have to start somewhere.

If you are a test manager, I urge you, please ask for a balanced strategy. Please hire someone with testing talent, not just coding talent. Please ask testing questions in your interviews for testing positions. Please don&#039;t accept a CS degree as a substitute for testing talent.

I want to join the cause and make a difference here, but it feels like shouting into the wind. Any suggestions?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love the idea of taking small steps to make testing better, but I believe you are missing some important points. The value that testing and quality has at a company is not defined by those in testing alone. In fact, the practitioners are NOT the main problem from what I&#8217;m seeing, and our efforts alone need allies to make changes, especially at the larger companies. How do we convey the value of thoughtful testing? How to we show that it isn&#8217;t optional when often the best work means we allow the developers to shine, but you hear nothing from or about testing, because there are no dramatic bugs. That can lead to the misconception that since they aren&#8217;t hearing of quality problems, perhaps it is safe to cut there. Outsource more jobs. Just don&#8217;t do the testing, or accept more risk and let the users test.</p>
<p>I bring this up only because I care so much about the survival of creative, balanced, successful testing for software. I want using software to be a great experience. This year many of the best and most talented testers I know are out of work, and all I see are open jobs for people to create automation and make testing tools. My peers are going to interviews where their entire value is how they code on a white board, and they aren&#8217;t asked even ONE testing question for a testing job! It concerns me. I know we have to start somewhere.</p>
<p>If you are a test manager, I urge you, please ask for a balanced strategy. Please hire someone with testing talent, not just coding talent. Please ask testing questions in your interviews for testing positions. Please don&#8217;t accept a CS degree as a substitute for testing talent.</p>
<p>I want to join the cause and make a difference here, but it feels like shouting into the wind. Any suggestions?</p>
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